All Lesbians Secretly Desire Men!! - A 'The Kids Are All Right' Op-Ed
by Jill Bennett | Article Date: 07/13/2010 8:20 PM
This, sadly, seems to be the message that every mainstream story involving lesbians seems to be sending. Granted, I haven't seen The Kids Are All Right yet, but when I read that Julianne Moore's character sleeps with the sperm donor of her kids I just had to sigh...
From all accounts, it's good...really good, Oscar buzz good. And according to IndieWire, has had the the best specialty debut of 2010 in the box office. I will see it, and perhaps I'll love it -- I probably will in fact. I can still like the movie but be disappointed that it went down that particular road, as almost all of them seem to do.
I've read some reviews that say that Lisa Cholodenko (a director whose work I absolutely love) handled the affair in a non-stereotypical way, that it wasn't about a lesbian leaving her lover for a man, that the characters aren't perfect...but honesty, I am just so sick and tired of this sub-plot popping up in every project that has a significant lesbian story line in it that I just don't care. Cholodenko has stated in interviews that she isn't here to please the lesbian audiences and doesn't care about the fallout. Granted, we are not an easy lot to satisfy...furthermore, no filmmaker is bound to do anything but tell a good story (which she apparently did.)
I guess my problem is that we just seem to be reinforcing the idea that men, and thus the mainstream, just cannot possibly identify or be interested in lesbians unless it involves them sexually in some way. When we present this idea in media over and over again, it sends a message.
I’ve been reading lots of reviews and over and over it’s mentioned that the movie isn’t about Julianne Moore’s affair, it’s about family, it’s showing that gay couples are flawed just like everyone else etc. But given that every review mentions it, I can’t help but be that lesbian who points out that the focus is on that particular storyline. Sorry folks, but this justification stinks a little bit like “labels are for cans” and I just can’t stomach it anymore. In fact, my point is reinforced by the fact that I haven’t seen it yet, but I already know that it happens.
Ask anyone what the movie is about…
It’s about a lesbian family. Didn’t hear that answer.
It’s about a long-term couple in the midst of a relationship crisis. Didn’t get this one either.
This is the answer I got five times:
It’s about a lesbian couple -- one of them sleeps with the man who donated the sperm for their kids.
Ew.
Our own beloved Kathy Wolfe (founder of Wolfe video), raved that this movie is our Brokeback Mountain...and yes, while we should be thrilled that A list actors are taking on lesbian roles, I for one would really appreciate a mainstream storyline that didn't include one half of a long term lesbian partnership straying for a man. It happened first in Queer As Folk, then again on The L Word, and now this...the three projects with significant lesbian storylines that arguably have had the most mainstream appeal in the last decade.
I agreee with you wholeheartedly. It's like
we are back in the 80's. I will not see this
flick. I refuse to be fed the same crap over
and over. THANK YOU for posting this Jill.
Now, you and Cathy should make a version of
this movie - one that won't go all hetero.
8-)
What about the lesbian friends I've had who
have had sex with men and are still Lesbian
and still with their partners? I'm an older
Boomer and I know that yes sex with men DOES
HAPPEN with Lesbians. I went to see the movie
yesterday because of the director's previous
work and and I like it thought made weep
during the adultery scenes. It's no High Art
but it's good. I don't presume to know
Lesbian sex habits but I know that
unappreciated unfulfilled partners, either
Lesbian or straight will leave their nest to
seek fulfillment with other humans and will
not care when they seek that fulfillment
their sexual orientation.sorry I lost my
password etc.
Shannon, St. Paul
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 10:28:11
Thanks, Jill.
Your article sums up what I've been talking
to folks about. One response I received was,
well, maybe she's bi. I'm so tired of the
idea that lesbian story lines have to involve
men in order to have appeal.
This was so nice to read. It is so exciting
to see a lesbian mainstream film come out,
but it is so true that until this whole "male
involved in a sexual way kind of drama" is
gone and we realize fully the underlying
message to us in these stories, how exciting
can it really be?
Stynium,
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 14:46:27
Boycott this movie
Yes your article is great! I am so sick of
lesbiam movies having to involve men in some
way. I will not be watching this movie, and I
won't mention it to my lesbian friends at
all, except to discourage them strongly from
watching it. I hope the movie never makes
money, I'm afraid. That's the only way to
send a strong message that we seriously are
only interested in good movies that portray
us lesbians positively and having good lives
without involving men in some way. Are we
going to just stand there and take it, and
pay our ten hard earned dollars to take such
bullshit?
There are many women, especially at
AfterEllen who absolutely love this
movie.They don't seem to see that many of us
are not hating this movie out of hand. We are
concerned with the overall message. And from
a narrative point of view-- does it make
sense that a lesbian, in a 20 yr lesbian
relationship, would choose to cheat on her
lover with a man?
Even if the man in
question is the sperm donor, does this really
make any sense?
I plan to see the movie. I
want to see for myself.
...that she cheated with a man than that she
"just" cheated? Shouldn't that be the real
issue? Is being with a man worse because he
produces sperm? It's can't be the
penetration aspect, 'cause I know a lot of
lesbians who love their dildos!
I
haven't seen the movie, either, and I will
see it because 1) I want to see for myself
and not just accept someone else's opinion
and 2) regardless of the "sleeps with a man"
issues, the fact that this is a mainstream
movie with 2 huge well known stars is a big
step forward, regardless of all the bickering
over the "man" issue.
This is just my
opinion and no one else need agree with me at
all.
Sigh. There are plenty of lesbians who are
occasionally attracted to men. Plenty of them
have actually slept with one at one time or
another--willingly.
And there are plenty
of bisexual women who are capable of steady,
monogamous commitment to another woman.
Can we all just decide that it's okay that
human beings are sexually and behaviorally
fluid, and enjoy a movie with a good script,
excellent acting, a theme that's realistic
and dealt with in a nuanced way, and a couple
of sexy, beautiful leading women? I, for one,
can't wait to see it.
The real message? If sleeping with Mark Ruffalo doesn't turn a lesbian straight, then nothing will.
Jill said: "The bigger issue is what it does
to the minds of heterosexual men. Lesbian
has become code word for waiting for the
right man to show them what they're missing."
I haven't seen it yet, but if the lesbian
couple survives the affair and stays
together, then doesn't it tell men that a
woman capable of sleeping with a man may
still prefer a woman? That's the message I
see for hetero men. Of course, I'm assuming
Julianne Moore's character returns to Annette
Benning's character since most lesbians who
have seen the movie like it.
I have to agree with this article. I equate
this with this scenario: All heterosexual
stories have the man/woman have an affair
with someone of the same sex. That just
doesn't happen. Why? Because it doesn't
happen in real life. Why not portray lesbian
couples as they are in real life. Maybe some
do go with a man, but certainly not all. And
even if one does, is it out of the realm of
possibility that she doesn't actually like
it?
Jill Bennett, Fort Wayne
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 20:47:52
Boycott?
Lest I be misunderstood [which I already have
been numerous times) I am not boycotting this
film based on the story line. I plan to see
it, this weekend in fact, and as I stated in
the article, will probably like it. The
point I was trying to make was that the
mainstream is reading a very condensed
version of the what the story is - basically
a lesbian has an affair with a man. Despite
it's relative popularity, most people will
never see the film, but ten bucks says
they'll be able to describe the story line,
and in this way: it's about a lesbian who
sleeps with her sperm donor. I'm saying that
despite how good the film may be, I'm just
sick of that story line...which is apparently
a crime in some circles.For the ladies with
their panties in a twist: do you really
think we've come so far along that the
nuances of the story will triumph over the
basic fact that most people won't be able to
look beyond the sexuality of Julianne Moore's
character? If so, we may have a very
different view of this country. Anyone up
for a lively debate about it? Name the place
and the mod and I'll happily engage in a
light-hearted debate to be pod-casted live.
:)
Later, when this movie is on cable, I think a
lot more people will see it. One movie isn't
going to change all of America's ignorant
perceptions, but if this movie gets Oscar
nominations and if it's the kind of movie
that channel surfers will stop on and get
drawn into, it has the potential to open some
minds - assuming Julianne Moore's character
stays with Annette Benning's in the end.
sickofit,
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 22:05:06
I agree, Jill. Same tired trope. As for the
few of you yammering about the "lesbians" you
know who have slept with men{eww} well they
might want to redefine themselves! Some gay
men have also engaged in sex with women yet
every fuckin gayboy movie isn't about that
now is it.
Q,
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 22:18:13
SAME TIRED SHIT. STOP MAKING MOVIES ABOUT BISEXUALS!
If a guy who identified as a straight male
and, yet ,said he occasionally had sex with
other men he would never be taken seriously
as a straight man! Everyone would just
snicker and call him out for what he is: a
gay guy or bisexual. If this movie were about
a straight couple and the husband suddenly
fucked a dude no one call him straight and
the movie would be considered a coming out
movie!!! So why does this crazy bitch still
get to call her ass a lesbian? She clearly
ISN'T one!!!!
Q,
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 22:24:21
Jill wrote:"I'm justsick of that story
line...which is apparentlya crime in some
circles"Hey Jill you know who doesn't like
you pointing out what a shit storyline this
is? All the bisexuals who refuse to call
themselves bisexuals. They don't like being
called out. Fuck em. I'm sure they've got a
cock to ride so...
Nan Wheatley, Avard
Wednesday, July 14 2010 | 22:42:21
don't eat that grandma
This is why Desert Hearts will forever be my
favorite.
Although I don't completely agree with Jill,
I understand and respect her POV, but where
is this hostility in the comments coming
from? Q, do you know why bisexuals "don't
like being called out"? If these comments are
a reflection of how lesbians really feel
about us, maybe that has something to do with
it.
Just like lesbians, we are
bisexual not by choice but because we are
attracted to both genders. We can be as
faithful or unfaithful as a lesbian. Some of
you are being as ignorant and hateful toward
bisexuals as homophobes are toward all
queers.
Great article Jill! And about time someone
set the record "straight" as the case may be!
I am also a GOLD STAR LESBIAN who isn't
interested in men as sexual partners. And if
I had a dollar for every "discussion" I have
had explaining the difference between a
"Lesbian" and a "bisexual", I would be a
FUCKING millionaire!
And for the "art
imitating life" segment, the ORIGINAL L Word
addressed this situation in the 5th season
when "Les Girls" changed the plot to have
Jenny go back to Tim. And Tina was the one
to fight for the "true story." This after
leaving Bette for a man then coming back!
As long as "our stories" final decision rests
with "straights" this is going to be the
plot. Somewhere in the movie, a straight guy
is going to have sex with a so called
"Lesbian!" Gee THANKS!!!!!!
P.S. And if as
Jill reported, Cholodenko stated that "she
isn't here to please the lesbian audiences
and doesn't care about the fallout" I will
keep my $10.00 in my pocket. Fuck her TRAITOR
ASS TOO! BITCH!!!!!
I read the NYTimes review and I gleaned from
it that Cholodenko said that she did direct
her story for a straight audience. From what
I've read, yes you are correct. This is more
pandering to a middle class philistine
liberal audience that will barely tolerate
us, with the position that if she can show
how similar our foibles are, maybe, just
maybe straights will see how much like them
we really are and maybe they will take pity
on us and let us get married and hold hands
in public. It is like every lesbian in
Hollywood stories is an "Aunt Tom" shucking
her way around a dick to prove that she is
still a woman in the eyes of straights by
giving reverence to the almighty dick.
What is most distressing about these women
who finally get access to media and audience,
e.g., Ilene Chaiken and a few others is how
they perpetuate the image of lesbians being
these weak, tormented creatures that are only
meaningful when they are acknowledge by
straights. This is all a long cry from
Stonewall where gays took to the streets and
basically said - fuck you, take us as we are
loud and not nice.
We also betray
ourselves whenever we go all gaga and limp
when we see junk like the L Word because we
are so desperate to see even a false image of
ourselves. The only pictures that I can
remember where lesbians are just that and
they were both wonderful, were "Desert
Hearts," and "Bound." In these films the
women were true to themselves and their
relationship. i think we need to stop
supporting these impostors that claim to
speak for us, including people like Melissa
Eldridge and her trip up Obama's ass. We need
to support leaders of our community who, if
they can't speak for all of us, they should
at least know when to speak only for
themselves. We are too diverse and our wide
spread social and economic differences can
only be addressed by people who understand
that we are now facing civil inequality and
anyone of us who is sleeping with the enemy
is just dragging us down with them.
WHOA... what a mixture of Emotions...and why
not, they are coming out of Women...ok
Lesbians, mostly.
I plan to see the movie
when it's avail on netflix;) if I don't get
to theater.
I am a Gay Woman... I am
attracted to men but not in a sexual way. I
don't like all men that I meet. But I like
some very much... as friends. I like most
Gay Men but not all.
I prefer women who are
not dykey-looking. Don't know exactly
why...but that's what is...for me.
I have
been in relationships only with Straight
women who fell in love with me but found
their way back to men. There was nothing
personal there, they were just acting out
their own drama.
We are all acting out our
own personal dramas...we are not cast out of
the same molds[SP?)...we are not set in
stone... and so many Gay women, Lesbians want
there to be only one mold...either Lesbian or
Bi-. If we can't let ourselves be who we
are...why do expect the heterosexual world to
accept us as who we are?
It's an
interesting debate, what Jill brings up...and
part of me agrees with her and part of me
does not!
What I must remember is that "What
you think of me is none of my Business!" And
that "There is nothing personal going on
here, we are all just acting out own own
dramas."
Peace.
when you said" Granted, I haven't seen The
Kids Are All Right yet,..."
You may well be
right in your judgment, but surely you would
be wise to see the movie before you cast
aspersions!!
What a remarkable lot of fear and rigidity is
being expressed here.
Puts me in mind of a
Tea Party gathering.
I did not come out in
the 80s because it wasn't safe to identify as
bisexual in the lesbian community, and that
was--tentatively, with great frustration and
a lack of any genuine conversation
partners--who I was pretty sure I was.
I
left a heterosexual marriage five years ago
because of the persistent longing and deep
grief I felt having not been able to have the
love of a woman in my life. My journey was,
and is, deeply spiritual and personal.
Throughout my adult life, I have known
"straight" female friends who finally
discovered themselves fully in a lesbian
relationship. I have had "lesbian" friends
who found themselves attracted to men and
leaving their lesbian partnerships. I have
had friends who identified as bisexual but
generally related to men, and friends who
identified as bisexual and were fully
committed to their female partners through
thick and thin. I have had friends--straight
and queer, male and female--who were sexually
unfaithful to their partners, as well as a
few who have had relationships of integrity
that are not monogamous.
I have loved men,
and I have loved women. I am only interested
in relating to women sexually now, but I
honor my past relationships with men as real
and substantive.
Yes, the "mainstream" out
there--They, those Others--have quite a ways
to go. And there are plenty of stereotypes
and misunderstandings to go around. But "We"
will never "Win" by imposing rigid,
fear-generated, rage-inflamed expectations on
ourselves and other human beings.
Pienso igual que Jill, yo soy lesbiana, y me
gusta la palabra lesbiana, y no soy bisexual,
y no me gusta que los hombres se confundan
conmigo. Y ese es el mensaje que da el film,
que una lesbiana en realidad es bisexual.
Estoy muy harta y cansada de este tema, y no
tengo ganas de ver la película. Y que quede
claro, yo no odio a las bisexuales, estoy
legalmente casada con una bisexual.
You could have written this article! :)
chaiken and now cholodenko have indeed sold
us out in order to advance their careers. And
the "shoulder shruggs" REALLY piss me off.
They are playing games with our lives and
don't seem to care.
But please forgive us
LESBIANS for being OFFENDED by people USING
US to SELL movies, music, and books! Then
saying LESBIANS are WRONG for not LIKING
IT!!!!!!!!
For the lesbians here on the defense about
once or now loving men, please get this
straight. The issue here is not hating or
loving men by lesbians, it is about the
EXPLOITATION, of lesbians by lesbians with
the misguided hopes of acceptance by the
straight world and of course for the self
serving women who are more interested in
their fame and fortune than their own
integrity and the integrity of the gay
community. As it was mentioned, we rarely if
even, see a gay movie about men using the
revolving door to maintain their manhood. Gay
men just don't need maudlin tales of
tormented souls looking for acceptance from
what? Women or men? Our problem is that there
are women out there claiming to be bisexuals
or lesbians and fear that they might be
classified as man haters. Well let me put
this succinctly, I don't know how it is
possible to love men in a world where women
are daily raped, mutilated and killed and our
so called enlightened liberal males are not
making much of a stink about it, with one
exception Nicholas Kristof of the NYTimes,
who spends his life and energy bringing the
plight of victimized women and children to
the light of day, for all to see and learn.
Our worst enemy is our own, who insist on
placating a hostile and hateful society. Know
that our President the commander in chief,
only needs to sign a document without the
approval of congress or the supreme court to
erase DADT from the books and yet the likes
of Melissa Eldridge are up his ass, fawning
and yes sir, to this poseur. Today, Argentina
joined Uruguay and legalized same sex unions,
joining many other European countries plus
Canada to correct a moral wrong. So ladies,
please stop with this hypocrisy about men
aren't all that bad. Bad things happen when
good men do nothing! I'll start liking the
little buggers when they join in the struggle
actively to stop the hate and violence
against the rest of us. Until then they can
just suck wind as far as I am concerned. I
don't hate them, I just understand where I
stand with them. I love my allies and watch
my enemies no matter who they are.
Where was all this kind of blowback and
outcry about that st8 chick on the
L-Word--that storyline didn't stop anyone
from watching it, raving about the show and
the lesbian media slobbering all over the it
for 6 [7?) years. I didn't watch the L-Word
for many reasons, but that was not one of
them.
Lisa Cholodenko has made an
excellent film with great actors, fine
direction, fab cinematography and a good
story. It's a film, a story, art, not a
soapbox to please the lesbian community OR a
political ploy to combat homophobic
hatemongers.
I'm serious! Were was
everyone here when that skinny girl was
screwing guys on the L-Word for over half a
decade and another got pregnant by another
dude.
Oh...you were too busy watching the
damn L-Word, oogling the girls, reading cover
articles about the actors and having wet
dreams about Jennifer Beals or Leisha Hailey
or what's her name who played Shane.
All Lesbians Secretly Desire Men!! - A 'The Kids Are All Right' Op-Ed
My bigger problem with the film was that
there was no lesbian sex! There were multiple
straight sex scenes [Paul with Tanya and
Jules multiple times, in multiple positions)
and multiple gay male sex scenes from the
porn tape, and yet the lesbian sex scene was
literally all covered up [Jules going down on
Nic under the covers while Nic watches porn).
The plot line could have included makeup sex
between Nic and Jules. Or it could have had
Jules come home from Paul's feeling guilty
and horny and wanting to go at it with Nic.
Or, it could have ended with a tender and
passionate sex scene between Jules and Nic.
So for me, the trope that I am so tired of
and shocked to see in this film is that
lesbians don't get freaky with each other. I
do. My wife does. [And we are the characters'
ages, in case you are wondering.) I am a
little bit shocked and more than little bit
saddened that no one else made this
observation.
gkexactly,
Friday, July 16 2010 | 02:01:54
WTH?
Why don't you people see the damned movie
before you pontificate? Then you might have
something informed and intelligent to offer
to the debate.
Deborah Be;;, Houston, TX
Friday, July 16 2010 | 02:15:17
The Kids are All Right and so are the Moms
I wasw prepared to not like this movie based
on the 'Lesbian has to be with man' thing but
this is a great film. The storyline is much
more complicated than that. I loved this
movie. You can read my review at
www.montrosegem.com
ABOUT this pattern of "it takes one good f--k
with a man to get a lezzie happy". That
pattern does permeate the "au currant"
version of socially enlightened films/tv
shows about lezzies. And no matter the
production quality of the production, that
message is downright toady. And then I
remind myself that usually the dominant
writers and or producers are all straight.
And then it seems clear to me that the
message is their wishful thinking on what
lezzies' really need/want.
I REALLY must
object and correct the earlier comment that
this film "takes us back to the '80's".
Obviously that commentor wasn't awake in the
80's but I was. Hell, the '80's were much
more radical and honest than what I find
today vav lesbians in media.
For me the
best lezzie film is STILL the 1985 [?) film
DESERT HEARTS which was based on book [Jane
Rule) and screenplay [Natalie Cooper) written
by lezzies; directed and produced by [Donna
Dietch) a lezzie and so it didn't compromise
at any point along the way to make straights
feel sorry for lezzies and happy for
themselves at the expense of lezzies. Both
main roles portrayed by skillful and honest
actors who were never lesbian but very
convincing nonetheless. Both [esp. Helen
Shaver, and Partricia Charbonneau) built
pretty good film/tv careers due this film
btw. They were not lezzie or A list but they
were damn good actors in their roles.
This
current film and the other examples you
mention are simply products of a process NOT
CONTROLLED BY LESBIANS. Lesbians in the 21st
C have abdicated their voice to "enlightened
well-meaning straights" who don't know what
the hell they are talking about. So we get
what we get. As a lezzie who spent part of my
life working in theater, I can appreciate
good production factors but really those
don't make up for a condescending story line.
Nothing fixes that for me.
Jason, Toronto
Friday, July 16 2010 | 06:11:55
Watch before you judge
There's nothing more dangerous than people
who opine on films or works of art before
seeing them. When a 'lesbian' sleeps with a
man, maybe she's bisexual... In the queer
community, biphobia rears its ugly head so
many times, it depresses me. Lighten up.
There's nothing wrong with desire and The
Kids Are All Right is a fantastic film.
The reviews on Rotten Tomatoes have this
movie at 94% Fresh. That's like amazing. I
haven't seen that high a rating ever! So
something must be working. Congrat's to Lisa
Cholodenko!!
Susan Gabriel
author of
Seeking Sara Summers
[a novel about falling
in love with your best friend)
Virginia Allen,
Friday, July 16 2010 | 09:14:02
Wholeheartedly Agree!
I, too, am so sick of this being included in
every lesbian movie/show! It has never been
my experience [over 40 years experience) nor
has it ever been my desire!
Christian Lesbian, NJ
Friday, July 16 2010 | 11:20:31
Great Article!
Thank you for this article! I am a feminine
true blue lesbian and the thought of seeing
this happen on the big screen would have
turned my stomach. Why don't they make
movies about true lesbians struggling with
a-typical life circumstances? I personally
have been called to serve the Lord and know
that I will have to fight the religious
denomiation to get my ordination. How about
a movie with that plot line! Again thanks for
saving me the movie ticket cost.
Nancy, Sausalito
Friday, July 16 2010 | 12:46:52
Relax and see the movie FIRST
One of the first rules of criticism is that
the reviewer should read, view, etc., BEFORE
passing judgment. I can't wait to see this
film because I want to see a sensitive,
humorous adult view of marriage between two
women. Many women who are in solid
relationships have at one time or another
been with a man. It doesn't take away from
their relationship. It may, in fact, enhance
it since we were brought up being pushed into
heterosexual relation ships and actually fell
for some men, but until we were with a woman,
couldn't figure out what was missing. It is
important to be more concerned with how we
love than who we love. The labels are getting
old. If these two women love each other and
learn to be good parents and build a good
life together, then the film is important.
Let's not be so touchy about straight, bi and
pure.
Doll, NJ
Friday, July 16 2010 | 14:39:59
I agree
I agree with this article. Thanks for putting
it into words for us.
Snowwy,
Saturday, July 17 2010 | 01:43:24
Consider watching Stargate Universe- which
contains a lesbian couple, yet commits none
of these sins.
El, Albuquerque
Saturday, July 17 2010 | 15:20:25
Why can't bisexuals....
....simply be called bisexuals. And simply
call themselves for what they are:
bisexuals.Lesbians who've figured out who
they are simply don't sleep willingly with
men. But, bisexuals do, which is of course
their right and their choice.
When I saw this movie, I was prepared to be
disappointed. But I have told everyone it's
about a long-term lesbian couple with kids
who are going through a rough patch. 'Cause
that's what I saw. I guess I feel differently
about the movie because while I identify as
bisexual, I really don't care who I'm
attracted to at any one point. Being in a
13-year relationship myself, I can understand
the allure of something new.
I saw it last
Saturday, and the theater was packed with not
only women [with or without male SO's) but a
lot of gay people, old and young. The only
other times I saw so many gays in one theater
was at Milk and Stonewall Uprising, both very
serious movies either documenting or based on
real life events. Hooray for comedies!
Maybe I'm not as militant as other people,
but I loved this movie, with it's faults [one
of which was not the lesbian sleeping with a
man,) and I plan to see it again
There are lesbians commenting that they will
see it, saw it, find it remarkable good etc.
Some one mentioned that the L Word got away
with worse. Well yes, the problem as I
mentioned earlier that lesbians are so
desperate to see themselves in the media and
mainstream entertainment that they will just
lick anybody's boot with lustful appreciation
even of a tad of a lesbian sighting.
And,
I would say that it proves once again that we
are just like everyone on the planet, fools
for abuse; that alone should help us
integrate into the mediocrity that goes for
liberal pc and the rest of that fraudulent
bullshit that is going around the lesbian
community as "we come a long way baby."
This movie might be the best there ever was
but the issue is once again, how lesbians in
the position to register our identity, will
forgo that to seek financial success, social
acceptance and the rest of the philistine msm
regurgitated nonsense that straights want us
to revere the almighty dick and we in our
heady intoxicated need to claim equality are
so ready to hand our power to the likes of
Cholodenko, Chaiken and whatever lesbian is
out there who wants to fit in and make some
chump change.
So, yes, you frightful
little minds who hang on the critics words,
thumbs up etc. yes, go throw your money and
make a lesbian who openly says the movie is
not for you but for straights depicting
privileged lesbians playing at "we too have
foibles and worries like you. Please, accept
us. This is more of the DADT yet for the
civil world. I've been a round a bit and I
have never met lesbians coupled or single who
behaved or thought that way. I say one thing
please go see the film and at least make one
lesbian richer and perhaps happier when she
looks herself in the mirror at your expense.
I find the level of anger here fascinating. I
realize this is an accumulation of
disappointment in the portrayal of lesbians
in mainstream movies, but this is far from
the worst and Cholodenko is not our enemy.
Can I assume that every one one of you
bitching about this has a subscription to
Jill Bennett's webseries?
[wehavetostopnow.tv) If you want things to
change, you should be doing everything you
can to promote lesbian artists who are trying
to change things.
Buy lesbian-friendly stories or at least Netflix them
If you want more lesbian stories that don't
involve men, then promote them. As I said,
subscribe to season 2 of WHTSN, but also buy
Season 1 at wolfevideo.com and while you're
there buy all of the other lesbian movies
that don't have lesbians sleeping with men.
Then go to Netflix and put WHTSN season 1 in
your Netflix queue, along with all of the
other lesbian-friendly movies.
Then again,
even Jill's own project [WHTSN) is guilty of
having a female character sleep with a woman,
then kiss a man. A good story is a good
story, not a political agenda.
Stories like this might be what led to a man
finding me on a dating site and telling me to
not "give up on men" and that I just needed a
"big strong daddy to tug my hair and fuck me
gently" to show me I wasn't really gay.
Um, no. Sorry. I'm a lesbian, not confused.
Thanks. Popular media could back us up
here.
It's true, TKAAR doesn't entirely show an
accurate depiction of lesbians in respect to
their lives and relationships. I think by
analyzing the types of relationships in the
movie, we can see the love vs. sex
distinction more clearly.
The married
lesbian couple, Jules and Nic, have been in a
long-term relationship and as a result their
sex life has suffered and is not as exciting
anymore. But they are still in love, which
is vital in order to maintain their
longevity. Enter the sperm donor guy, Paul,
[literally and figuratively) who sleeps with
one half of the lesbian couple [Jules) and
begins a relationship based solely on sex NOT
love. Therefore, the sex is meaningless and
nothing more. Jules returns to her loving
wife and we are to assume they stay together
and work things out sexwise within their
relationship. For the lesbian couple it was
about sexless love, for Jules and Paul, it
was about loveless sex.
So, in my
opinion, it seems the movie is simply about
love vs. sex. Is love more important than
sex or vice versa? Well, both are important
but we can't get them separately from two
different people, if we choose to seek a
long-term monogamous relationship such as the
lesbian characters, Jules and Nic, in this
movie, who were faithful to each other until
the guy came along. Proving that sex was the
only reason for one of them to stray from the
other. Not gender, not love, not sexual
orientation. Just sex. In the end, love wins
out because sex isn't enough by itself. This
movie would have been more disappointing if
Jules developed an emotional relationship and
fell in love with Paul, going beyond their
physical/sexual relationship. More still, if
she ended her relationship with Nic just to
be with him. In the end, Jules goes back to
her girl and ultimately that's what matters.
I can't help but comment here. I have not
read through all the comments but for those
of you who said you will not watch this movie
or recommend it because one of the lesbian
characters sleeps with a man--I think there
are bigger battles, and you'll ultimately be
missing out on some really really good acting
and a fun, endearing, heartfelt story.
Furthermore, lesbians will have sex with men.
It happens. Sex is just sex sometimes. Love
is something else. You should know this! Had
Jules slept with another woman perhaps this
story in and of itself would not have worked
at all. Toward the end, donor dad tries to
get Jules to come away with him and leave
Nic, and she simply says to him, "I'm gay"
rolls her eyes as if to say how pathetic that
he doesn't understand, and hangs up on him.
It's quick and somewhat subtle and I think a
lot of hetersexual viewers won't get that
exchange perhaps, but the director isn't
telling heteros that lesbians will 'always'
go get sex from men, she's saying lesbians
will always be lesbians even if they romp
around with a guy for whatever reason, to
feel that unique newness again, to get some
aggression out, whatever the case may be. I
know plenty of lesbians, myself included,
that though they consider themselves
"lesbian" [if they're giving themselves a
label) believe that sexuality is fluid and
that the 'lesbian' is not 100%, that no human
is 100% anything--and it has a lot more to do
with the emotional connection in love than
just the sex. If you are saying your are 100%
I don't believe you. It's rigid and inhuman.
It doesn't make you bi or strait or anything
other than what you truly feel you
are---lesbian. On top of this I might add
that not everything having to do with this
subject needs to be a political statement. I
remember when the L-word first aired, there
was so much blogging going on about how
disappointed everyone was in that first
episode and how unrealistic the story and the
lesbians were. It was still an entertaining
soap that kept millions of lesbians tuned in
regardless. Why? Because it was hot, and
young, and sexy, and fun, and we fell in love
with the actors, because it was an escape.
Don't we all like to escape every now and
then??
That's quite a claim you've made. All it
takes to disprove it is for one human being
to stand up and say 'my sexuality is not
fluid' - well, there's one right here [and I
suspect I'm not the only one). Sexuality is
fluid for some people but not for everyone.
If you really want to grasp human nature then
you have to acknowledge its diversity. Some
of us are, as you say, 100%. How can you be
so arrogant as to think that all human
experience must necessarily conform to your
own?!
If you believe that your sexuality
is fluid then you are misapplying the word
'lesbian'. If you think everyone's sexuality
is fluid then the term should be redundant in
your eyes - so why use it at all? The
definition of 'lesbian' is a black and white
definition; there is no grey area. Perhaps
it is not sufficient to accommodate the
practices of some people who apply that label
to themselves, if so, either the definition
needs to be revised or the people who don't
fit the label need to stop using it - seeing
as there are already other words that
encapsulate fluid sexuality, I think the
latter suggestion is preferable.
Well actually, contraray to the word
homosexual, lesbian has always been defined
differently by different people and in
different times. So, no, there is no one
definite definition of the word lesbian.
Funny thing is that, despite only being
capable of and only wanting relationships
with women, I have often been told by
lesbians I'm just not lesbian enough to be
"allowed" to use that label [and really, I've
just given up trying to by now, just because
I don't want to hear that shit anymore),
because of my occasional sexual attractions
to men - I have yet to meet a bisexual who
would tell me I'm not bi enough though.
As
for the movie - I haven't seen it yet and
will withhold my final judgement until I
have, but I also have to say I'm fed up with
storylines featuring women in relationships
with other women cheating on their partners
with men. That's a good story line neither
for lesbians nor for bisexuals.
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