I am not your daughter or your son. But if you are a Christian with a lesbian daughter or a gay son, and if you've allowed yourself to be spoon-fed the traditional condemning rhetoric about homosexuality, I can probably speak for her or him. As the holidays approach, he or she is probably in the same pain that I’ve experienced.
You raised us to believe that God loves us. You told us that Jesus died to provide forgiveness for all of our sins (presumably, whether you and I define "sin" in the same way or not). One of the first songs you taught us in Sunday school was "Yes, Jesus loves me…For the Bible tells me so." And you told us that our place in Heaven was guaranteed, as long as we just believe that.
Then, somewhere along the way, you realized that we were lesbian or gay. And at whatever point we found the courage to tell you, you did an immediate 180, and now you tell us we are an abomination, and our place in Hell is guaranteed.
The most fundamentalist among you claim that you reject your children because you take the whole Bible literally. But that is not true -- and it’s time for you to just get honest about that. If you are aware of the content of the Bible you must know that there is much in there that you do not take literally. How can you not know that? How can you not admit that? You must, at some point, have read where Jesus said that in order to follow Him, one must hate mother, father, sister, brother. (Luke 14:26) But not one of you feels any less a Christian because you love your family. Clearly, scripture must be interpreted in a broader context than its literal words. It amazes me that you still claim to take it all literally.
To be Christian means to seek to be like Jesus, to follow His teachings and example, right? That's what makes your rejection of your LGBT children and their partners so richly ironic. The good news is that the upcoming holiday season provides you with a perfect opportunity to take a step toward turning things around.
If you've stuck with me this far, let me tell you why I'm writing this. I am a lesbian. And I am a Christian. Christmas holds the same meaning for me that it does for you. I grew up enjoying family gatherings, seeing relatives I had not seen all year, enjoying that sense of belonging to a growing, loving family unit larger than my own household – all of the things we enjoy about celebrating Christmas with our closest loved ones. But when I found the partner for whom I had spent years praying, that all changed. At that point, I was forced to choose between spending Christmas with my partner and spending it with my extended family-of-origin.
Of course, my mother wanted me to come “home” for Christmas – me and my children. But my partner was not welcomed. My mother, who I loved dearly, just could not (or would not) understand the position that put me in. I lived with my partner. We woke up together, ran errands together, bought groceries and paid bills together, cooked for each other, washed each other's clothes, worshipped God in church together, took care of each other when one was sick, held each other when one (or both) cried, saved money together to ensure that whichever of us lives longer will continue to live well, fell asleep in each other's arms, and woke up together the next day. I lived with her. In a very real sense, I lived more fully and completely because of her. So after sharing and giving and receiving and being all that we were to each other 364 days of the year, on the most significant day of the year for most Christian families to be together, how fair was it to demand that I take my children and we leave her to go spend that day where she was not welcome?
I desperately searched for some kind of compromise. I offered to bring my children and visit her the week before Christmas. Not good enough. I asked if my partner could just have Christmas dinner with us and sleep elsewhere while my kids and I stayed at Mom's house. Uh-uh. That would be "condoning" our relationship, and she couldn't do that, especially with the children of the family in the house. In genuine anguish, I pointed out that if my partner was not fit to be near my nieces and nephews for one day, neither was I since every fact upon which my mother based her decision about my partner being there was also true of me. She did not respond to that. She was so genuinely convinced that she was obliged to "take a stand" about my life and my relationship -- that she would not meet me any fraction of the way. I had to choose. And the "wrong" choice would break her heart.
But here's another great irony in all of this, my partner -- the very same person that my mother refused to allow to sit and break bread at her table on Christmas Day -- insisted that I go to my Mom's house for Christmas. My partner talked about the fact that she was my one and only mother. She reminded me that, at her age, I could not know which Christmas might be her last (a fact that we both realize is true for all of us, but it seems a greater concern when it comes to elderly parents). She said she didn't want my mother to have a heavy heart on Christmas Day because of my absence.
The irony does not end there. Just a few months earlier my partner had spent her money buying special groceries and worked hard fixing up our house to entertain my mother like royalty when she came to town for my son's high school graduation. My mother sat at our table and enjoyed the celebratory meal my partner and I prepared and provided together. Mom, on the other hand, wouldn't allow my partner to sit at her table and eat dinner with her family on Christmas Day.
Back to you, homophobic Christian parents, even if we assume, just for a moment, that you're right and that homosexuality is a sin, please, go back to your Bibles and check out how Jesus treated even the worst "sinners" He encountered. And answer this honestly – whose position sounds more like Christ?
More on next page...
The "pink elephant"
The "pink elephant" on this discussion has not been given any kind of exposure...of couse, I'm sure I know why. But I would challenge each and every one of you to read read the book of 1 John. It gives an incredible amount of answers to alot of your "misgivings" and concerns on the love of Christ, Brotherly love to all peoples along with Godly love to those who have no relationship with Christ. I'm not a theologian, but I consider myself a student of God's Word and a follower of God's Word. When you ask the question If God and Jesus teach of loving your fellow man, how can some Christians claim to be abiding by the laws of the Bible. It does not teach hate, something that has been overlooked for far too long. It makes me wonder if some of the extremists are out there to gain notoriety rather than anything Seems as though your key word in here, lesbianmomtoday, is the word "some Christians" claim to be abiding by the laws of the Bible, but in 1John, you will find where we as Christians should stay away from undgodliness, we should abstain from the ways of the world and the worldy lusts of the world. This book is written for Christians by Christians, but speaks very directly of a Godly love that we must have for all peoples...a divine love that totally forgives the wrong that is done to them...it's called an agape kind of love. God forgave all of our sins...that's a dundeal, In the present, if we love God, then we must turn our lives to live by His Word, not the way we want...that's what we must do in the present, and for the future, God paves out a plan for each of our lives that He wants us to live by. It's by no kind of control of manipulation like so many gays believe, but it is only by sheer choice of acknowledging our sins, walking away from our sins (homosexuality - the pink elephant - there! I said it), and trusting and believing in God through Jesus Christ - leaving "self" out of the picture. If we leave "self" out of the picture, then the loathsome "sin of pride" will be forever be wiped out of our lives in so many ways. I love my gay daughter immensely, and so did Marilyn's mother love her immensely. But we are taught in God's Word that homosexuality is sin, is immoral, and will be dealt with only by the wrath of God, a God who wants all of His creation to love and honor Him because he lays down the terms - He calls the shots - and that's all in His Word. And it's up to each one of us to love our fellow man, give grace where it is needed, and realize that God is in control of each human being.It really hurts my very core to know that God's Word is being twisted to man's lusts, thoughts, and desires, and gives no consideration to who God really is. Searching a Biblical relationship with God would be a start in the right direction with all of us, rather than trying to prove that the relationship you are into is "Godly" and righteous. I don't mind conversing with any of you because I do love you...I love you enough to pull you up on a lifeboat that will actually save your soul, but you will have to leave hateful thoughts of Christians behind, and consider a new life in Christ. I too, have my skeltons of Christians persecuting me, and I must forgive them, however, it pains me to hear people who really don't know who the God of the Bible is, criticize the very essence of God's love. Again...go read 1John in the new Testament...read it a couple times, and pray for clear understanding...I will be praying as well.
In response
Ms, Marilyn, First of all, let me say that it is sad that your mother has passed away and you no longer get to spend Christmas with your mother. Second - Did you honor your mother? The Bible tells me so.Third - Jesus died for the sinners that he supped with - he was building relationships and maintained them...did you maintain that honor and respect for your mother? I wonder what Jesus thinks about your hatred towards her and your dilemna between coming home and spending time with your partner...Fourth - you speak that you as a lesbian loves everyone...but your mother died with a broken heart. Your letter reeks with hatred toward Christian parents who have gay children. No love there...and no intention in understanding. She loved you very much...unconditionally, but you were asking her to compromise her faith...she couldn't. Fifth - I believe that if she were to read this "open letter", her heart would break all over again. Stop.Sixth - "SIN" - I suppose it's all in the helm of the interpreter, however, I do know that One person gave up His life for my sin and yours. I know that I have to stay away from certain sins, because the Bible teaches me to repent (walk away from my sin), and I have to constantly walk away...whatever the sin. I'm sure that you will indeed discover what "SIN" truly is...one day.Seventh - I really don't appreciate the fact that you manipulate people into thinking that God loves everyone and that it's OK to "love" others of like gender...doesn't say that in my Bible. To even embrace that thought is to spit into the face of my Cruciified Lord. Jesus never had sex with his gender...he just loved sinners because he had compassion on them...and then he said, "repent, and go and sin no more".
Sometimes it's hard to understand
I don't think any of your responses portray an accurate and full understanding of both the tone and argument of this letter. Maybe before responding you should read over it several times. Some, but not all of your grievances (4, 5, 7), should be adequately adressed with a little bit of patience. After all, this is a written form of communication, and these things (being monotonous, emotionales, and purely linguistically symbolic) are often very difficult to understand when we are so accustomed to the spoken word.As a Theologian, I do not find very strong validity in your Christian assertions (3, 6). To begin with your statement "Jesus died for the sinners that he supped with..." is problamatic on two accounts: 1). Neither I nor you supped with Jesus 2). Only twelve people (that we know of ) did I'm pretty sure the bible says he died for "all" of our sins (past, present and future). It is a valid point to say that his death does not condone the active participation in sin. But that was not the point she was bringing up. Jesus did in fact say, "go and sin no more" (and other variations) but this was not before he showed them the love society failed to show them. I believe if Jesus' death encompassed all of humanity throughout time, then he died for Hitler as well. Like I said, his death does not condone the actions such a man commited. But if he's willing to die for him, I think it is a very good mental marker to show the depth of kindness, compassion, and love we must be willing to show one another.That being said, "judgement is mine, saith the Lord". And that is something I feel a lot of people tend to forget. Our jobs as Christians is simply to love God, care for the earth, and promote healthy communities. Nowhere are we called to reject or to judge any fellow man. Jesus may not have agreed with anything the "least of my brothers" had done, but he certainly didn't reject them. Another mental marker.All and all, I pray for a steady growth of understanding within our religious community. There has been an abundance of theological growth that has contributed to a greater understanding of Christian doctrine that is as interdisciplinary and diverse as the table of God is. They will know I am Christian, not be the signs I carry, the dress I wear, or the people I turn away, but by my love; by my love.
Very beautiful. Thank you!
Very beautiful. Thank you!
I struggle with this
Thank you for writing this. I am a Christ-folllower. When asked the greatest commandment, Jesus answered to love God, and love one another. This story reminded me of when I was younger and brought home a boyfriend that my parents disliked (I am heterosexual) That being said, I struggle with this topic. I have a niece and a nephew that are homosexual, from 2 different siblings. I love them both dearly & I accept them. I don't know how I would feel if they brought their partners to a family gathering. I'm sure I would welcome the partner, but would be uncomfortable. My discomfort would be worth making sure that my niece or nephew knew they are loved & accepted. I struggle with if this is wrong or not. (I may be blasted for saying that, but I'm being honest). If it's wrong, is it a deal breaker? Does it mean the homosexual person does not get eternal life in heaven because they haven't asked for forgiveness? Or does homosexuality need to be forgiven? I can't answer that, I struggle with that. Thank God, I'm not to judge. Bottom line, I live for Jesus and He said to love.
gay families get together ... or they separate
JacJesus told his disciples to go out two by two (no mention of gender so I can only guess that Jesus left this open to be decided by his followers) that when they came to a door where they were not welcome to shake the dust from your feet as a testimony AGAINST them (Luke 9:5).Surely if the gay couple in your family are believers and they come to YOUR door it is clear how you can show them that you are a believer. You will welcome them in.You will not care what anyone else in your church thinks.Your eternal life may depend on your response.May God bless you for opening your spirit.May all your family rejoice in the good news of Christ's birth this Christmas!
so, some of you are giving
so, some of you are giving her shit? that is not exactly what i thought would happen, a lot of you are judging her, just like her mama does, only vice versa. Love people, love damnit, that is an order. actually that is a joke, but do love, please. thank you for sharing your open letter.
your choice
It's not for anyone, including these commenters, to judge the choice you made to spend Christmas with your mother. Our important relationships are complex and unique. To frame it as a mere competition - which person is more important - is simplistic at best and destructive at worst. Both people are important to you, and no matter how right or wrong one is, you have to contend with the reality that both relationships are essential. I think you made a compassionate decision. To love someone when they are wrong, and especially when they are hurtfully wrong, requires you to expand your capacity to love. Your partner gave you and your mother a generous gift, a sacrifice out of love, in support of your love. You were right to accept that gift.Part of the disease of homophobia is rigid thinking. Your mom offered you an ultimatum. You responded with kindness, and that in my experience is one way to wear down the rigidity.So maybe internalized homophobia was part of your decision, maybe not. I think that choosing to spend the time with your mom was a reasonable, loving decision, that might have had everything to do with love, and perhaps not so much to do with self-hate.
What a beautiful response ! AMEN!
I share a birthday with my favorite aunt. And she shares hers with me.For the first time in over 50 years she organized a birthday get-together.My step-mother was one of the guests.I was not allowed to bring my boyfriend.But he insisted over my objections that I go without him. I was not a happy camper.My aunt however did agree to meet the 2 of us for supper 2 days before but afterwards still insisted that he could not come to the party.I just could not understand. It was the first time my aunt and I had ever had a serious disagreement!It was my birthday too. My childen would be there. My grandchildren. My sisters. My neices and nephews. I had met HIS family. I had taken him to my family picnic where he had already met most of the other guests who were celebrating our birthdays.I went to my aunt's party. Disgruntled but smiling to all.When asked I said « It's my party and I'll cry if I want to» !That evening after all was over and I was reunited with my boyfriend I thought about the party once more.My stepmother had mentioned that it was the first time that she had seen the five of us with our families since her divorce from our father the year before. It was the first time she had ever seen my second grandson.My aunt - my mother's sister - had not arranged the party for herself but for my STEPMOTHER!I was so glad I had listened to my boyfriend and gone to my aunt's party!I finally was able to imagine what was in my aunt's mind when she planned this event.Her birthday was a pretext. My birthday was of no great importance.Nothing - not even my first boyfriend - was going to steal my stepmother's place as queen of the ball !I was so glad that I had used Facebook to invite my daughters and all my neices and nephews. All but one was there. One of my daughters had even changed here vacation to be there.I should add something here about my favorite aunt.My aunt does not worry about other people's sexual orientation.When I was young she told me she would never marry - she didn't like men in that way.She did have a special friend for 48 years. When her friend died my younger daughter sent a much appreciated note of condoleances. She wrote « I considered E as a second aunt »...
Dear Rabbit
Bite me, that woman was wrong to exclude and demean her partner PERIOD!!!
Marilyn's letter
Marilyn, your letter is beautiful, heartbreaking, sad and joyful at the same time, and incredibly brave. I am a heterosexual male, and I am NOT a Christian. (Not much of anything, really----VERY spiritual in my own way but not the tiniest bit religious.) I have not faced any of the family issues you and so many others have---a son and daughter who are also heterosexual. I suppose my mother was not homophobic; she made jokes about the subject, but not where anyone LGBT might hear it. She died in 1970, probably before her consciousness could be raised. But I guess knew from high school that those whose sexual preferences differed from mine could be just as wonderful, delightful, and such good friends as any straights. Therefore the ignorance that bubbles up amongs the far right nutcases gets me angry---almost every day. But I read letters like yours and it fills me with admiration and joy. Thank you for sharing with all of us---and the happiest of holidays.
Letter
You were wrong to exclude your partner, my partner comes 1st, before my mother & before my father if he were alive. Many parents would tell you that if faced with a similar choice, that you are their child, and you come 1st, but in x amount of years you will be grown and move away to start your own family, their spouse has to come 1st in many matters. Your partner was very kind in what she offered, you sadly failed the test, you didn't put her 1st. How can you claim you love her if she is only second to your mother's bigotry & intolerance. Shame on you.
oh....
..so you think she should have gone AGAINST her partner's wish & forced her presence on her partner for the holidays? Her partner wanted her to go visit her mother. She had no alterior motives, and she was not saying that as a test. What you said right there is disgusting. Okay, cool, you put your partner over the people who created you, gave birth to you, raised you, and put up with your crap their whole lives. That's awesome for you. However, many other people may realize, as this woman did, that time is running out with their parents.She spent this whole letter talking about forgiving people of her sins. Now you're going to say that she should have shunned her mother for this? Her mother doesn't know better! Yes, it was horrible of her to act like this, but she was raised that way. A tiger can't change its stripes over night. The writer of this article is aware of that, and I think her ability to look past the prejudice of her mother and still love her makes her stronger than ever. I would give a big rant about how partners came second into your life and should thus be put second in other matters, but guess what? THAT IS MY OPINION! I'm not going to force it on other people and tell them, "SHAME ON YOU!" for not agreeing with me. That would just be absurd. It sounds kind of familiar, though...You can believe what you want. The author can believe what she wants. I can believe whatever I want. But when you shove your believes on someone and attempt to bring shame to them for not believing the same thing, that's crossing the line. If you want to be able to have your own opinion, you need to let others do so as well. /rant
actually u put god first..
actually u put god first.. then u put ur loved ones. My fiance always tells me to go spend time with my family and that he dont mind. Both parents and one's partnercan both come in 2nd. it shouldnt matter which one is first or second.
uhm
You didnt read that letter at all did you, her partner made her go. Ur being as shitty as her mom is. Chill and try and understand what the point of the letter is saying.
Sadly, you are Spot on,
Sadly, you are Spot on, Dan......
Thankfully never had to deal with this...
...with my mother, who is Christian (my father agnostic), because she is accepting of who I am.I did have to do so with my grandmother. But I made the opposite choice: I told my grandmother in no uncertain terms that I would not leave my partner out of my holidays to appease her backwards sense of hateful religion. I tried much the same that you did. I even offered to host the holiday dinner at my place, but she said she would not attend if my partner were there.My partner said much the same thing yours did: She's family, go be with your family. So was my partner - and if I'm going to spend time with people that I love, I would prefer to do it with those who are being rational.And so I did not attend any family gatherings hosted by my grandmother for the last 10 years of her life. I would make a call out of good will and ask neutrally if her opinion had changed, and when it had not, I would tell her that I loved her and wished her a happy holiday, and that was it.Perhaps that is stubborn of me. But it is what I chose, and I don't mourn the choice. I mourn the loss of my grandmother, because there was much about her that I loved, but on this issue, to let her force me to choose between blood and love was something I could not do.
Looks like you chose the person to give you UNconditional LOVE!
Looks like you chose to be with the person that gives you UNconditional/TRUE LOVE - where you could be your AUTHENTIC SELF!! That's the ONLY way to go!!!! CONGRATS(& BIG GIRL!!! Isn't amazing how MANY people are STILL trying to win their parents love & approval! Even at 60+!! VERY SAD!!!)
Thank you for standing up for
Thank you for standing up for the one you love. I know it could not have been easy. My family (Vince & I) have been blessed with wonderful familes, his family treat me like family and my family loves Vince... I have no respect for anyone who would push their loved on away, I suspect for them they are so twisted as to never understand what it means to be in a committed and loving relationship, they only pay lip-service to the concept, and run when the going gets hard, just like that idiot did.
I find this letter
I find this letter disturbing. What would possess you to go along with your mother's unkind treatment of your partner, year after year? Your partner may have been okay with the fact that you ditched her every year for the holidays, but I can't understand how you managed to be okay with it.
RIGHT ON Patrick!!
RIGHT ON Patrick!!!
Hi Patrick. First, let me
Hi Patrick. First, let me say that I understand, completely, that my choices in any situation may not work for everyone. The point of this letter is not to suggest that they should. In fact, I did not "ditch" my partner every year. This is an account of one Christmas - my first in which I was out and partnered many years ago. Given my background, I was much less secure in my identity as both a Christian and a lesbian. Or to put it another way, I was struggling with my own internalized homophobia. There are many, from backgrounds similar to mine, who can relate to this struggle. If you can't, that is something for which to be grateful. I've grown, and many of my choices today would be different from what they were many years ago. In the short time this letter has been posted, I have heard from a reader who sent it to his parents. They responded with an invitation for him, his partner, and their children to spend Christmas with his family-of-origin. That was the point of sharing it.Respectfully,Marilyn
I understand the point,
I understand the point, Marilyn, and I appreciate your sharing it. I'm sorry for my rather harsh reaction. Certainly most of us have had to deal with internalized homophobia at some time.
anti-gay "christians"
What most "Christians" believe about the Bible has been spouted by relatively ignorant preachers who simply preach their own bigotry, without any scholarship or research into the Bible as a historical document of the faith. Many, especially the KJV believers, have no idea that they are reading translations of translations of translations, which were often done by people without education or understanding of the language they were translating. All of the so-called anti-gay provisions in the Bible are actually not that at all. Fairly simple research on the internet turns up hundreds of scholarly researches in this field. The problem is that these "anti-gay" provisions have been translated badly so many times that the end result does not even talk about the same subject that the original text was disucssing. The classic example is the story of Sodom, everyone today thinks sodomy is gay, or at least anal, sex, The Bible condemns the residents of the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah of the sin of inhospitality to guests. ( Society then required that a host offer his juvenile daughters to sleep withmale overnight guests!) The people of Sodom refused to do so--and therefore God destroyed the City> This is a God we should pray to and obey? This is something to take literally? This is what being a Christian amounts to? It is time for everyone to back off and think. It is time for everyone to realize that times change, society changes, cultures advance. We have to believe that we are in a more advanced society than the stone age when most of the Bible was written. They wrote much and believed much because they did not have the scientific abilities to do anything else. Being a Christian is and has always been an issue of human morality, If you read the New Testament, (which is the Christian part of the Bible) you realize that the teaching is always morality- - do unto others, etc. It is never about sex. It is self-contradictory often, and it must be interpreted according to the original language of that particulalr book, as well as the current culture. According to the Bible, even in its current translations, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, nor did he hint at anything either.. <!--Pagebreak--> Fundamentalism is sometimes based in an (ultimately selfish) desire to control a person's own destiny- - a truly human desire. It is a breakaway from an older more established format of religion that does not quite fit with the individual who starts the new sect. Sometimes that breakaway results in a re-energizing of religious life, such as the protestant reformation and the counter-reformation in the Catholic Church that followed it. Sometimes the breakaway results in a cult run by a power-hungry madman who abuses everyone around him such as the Waco, Texas tragedy. The trick is telling the difference. <!--Pagebreak--> I think we need to critically look at anyperson or organization that purports to TELL us what to think, or how to dress, or what to do. Typically, the more unnecessary rules there are, the less likely it is that this is truely religion, and the more likely it is to be just another way to control people. Once you get past the basic "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", there really isn't any need for anything else. Everything else is just a personal preference, not a basic rule. Not cutting your hair or beard, not wearing jewelry, not driving a car, not having electricity in your home, only having 1 wife, or 4 (as in some parts of the Bible) or not having sex with anyone but 1 person for the rest of your life, or not having sex with a person of same sex, or not getting divorced, or only having sex for procreation purposes and no other :: these are all just personal preferences and have nothing to do with being a good Christian. <!--Pagebreak-->A Baptist is not any more a Christian than a Methodist, or a Catholic, or any other sectarian group such as Amish, or Jehovah's Witnesses. These are just different ways to be Christians. None are any better than the other, just different. You may prefer one over another, but preference does not make it better (except for you). One of the greatest of sins identified in the Bible is the sin of Pride- - thinking you are better than others because of __________. Our world is too full of too many people being told and believing that they are better than others because of whatever nonsense someone can come up with on the spur of the moment.<!--Pagebreak--> It is time for real Christians to step up and be counted, to call out the bullies who are interested in nothing more than personal power; and to understand that the Constitution prevents the establishment of ANY religion, just to protect the right of each to practice religion as he or she wishes to do. Do you really want the government to back only 1 sect against all others? Which sect? What if it isnt the one you belong to and you are forced to join a new church? Do we all join the Adventist church?, or the Mormon Church?, or the Baptist Church? OR, do we starting thinking again, and realize that a few power-hungry madmen are manipulating society and media and the political process for their own personal gain, with no more interest in any of us, straight or gay, church or non-church, Christian or Moslem or Jew.
Thank you
Thank you Rev. Marilyn for the most touching letter that I have read in a very long time. It really went deep into my soul.Though, in the culture I come from we never speak about homosexuality, my father disowned me from my inheritance because he was convinced that I was "gay". My mother was accepting even though we never discussed it. I loved my father and mother immensely and I lost my mother 3 years ago and my Dad last month. I didn't have to go through what you had to because we live in two different continents. Having grown up in a conservative Christian tradition, I felt and understood everything you said. It brought tears. God be with you and your family during this beautiful season of Love.
Great letter!
Great letter! Very well written. I have also been confused by the hypocrisy displayed by many so call Christians. If God and Jesus teach of loving your fellow man, how can some Christians claim to be abiding by the laws of the Bible. It does not teach hate, something that has been overlooked for far too long. It makes me wonder if some of the extremists are out there to gain notoriety rather than anything else... http://www.lesbianmomtoday.com/
What the Catholic Church professes on this issue
"They [homosexuals] must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."
Catechism of the Catholic Church 2358.
Many would have people believe the Church "hates" gay. The exact opposite is true (like all the other misconceptions).
This is a wonderful letter.
This is a wonderful letter. If the church, Christians, would actually treat their fellow man as Jesus did we would be living in a much better world. This Christmas just ask yourself What Would Jesus Do. WWJD. Would he shun those who are different or would he offer to share his meal with them? WWJD.
Christmas with Jesus!
Hi Marilyn, How would Jesus handle Christmas with sinners? He would probably ask "where did I command to keep annual birthdays? wasn't it Pharaoh and Herod, both Pagans that the Bible describes celebrating their day, murdering guys they had in prison, like John the baptist"? Does the Bible give a date for Christs birth? No. However it mentions the date of His crucifixion more than any other date old or new testaments, He would most likely ask why we ignore that date, even though He said to do that day in remembrance of Him, not some Pagan sun god's day celebration kept by Herod, sometimes not even in the same month. You know, even if the world unites in complete ecumenical agreement, that sin isn't sin, it doesn't change God's view of it. We need to ask ourselves; What did Jesus mean when he turned and responded to a "positive" comment made by Peter with: "GET thee behind me Satan!". Did it sound like Jesus wanted to kick it with, be tolerant of, or otherwise accepting of Peters morallity? When Jesus was "non judgemental" with the woman taken in adultery, didn't He add "go and sin no more"? Unfortunately for "us" rebelious children, the 5th commandment says to honor our parents, if our parents are "homophobic" then we break that commandment by indulging in homosexuality, what our parents have deemed dishonorable, like it or not. Have You read Foxes book of Martyrs**? This is the benchmark publication of Christian history, and gives account after account of lives devoted to the scriptural Christ, what these people gave up to keep themselves from being defiled, Foxes IS the account of what the founding fathers were thinking of concerning religion, and why we enjoy the freedoms in the US that we do.http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22400/22400-h/22400-h.htm
Minor Correction
Theophile, you wrote that the Bible "mentions the date of His crucifixion more than any other date old or new testaments ," yet it doesn't. There is NO actual *date* mentioned although the Gospel of John does refer to Jesus' being in Bethany six days before Passover. However, Passover is a weeklong festival and is celebrated based on the Hebrew lunar-based calendar. The only certainty about the date is that it takes place during the Northern Hemisphere Spring. And, given that the only foods mentioned that Jesus and the disciples consumed at the Last Supper were bread and wine, that seems to minimize the Last Supper's being a Seder dinner (a Seder includes other items that could have been symbolically used by Jesus just as the bread and wine were, but I digress....) despite the current tendency to treat the Last Supper as being a Passover Seder (though the time frame would be a bit iffy, given that Jesus is arrested and executed in less than one day ; I can't imagine that the Jews would be in such a rush to crucify Jesus so that he died before the start of the Sabbath--traditionally the rationale for the Crucifixion being set on a Friday--but had no qualms seeing a "criminal" being executed during the Passover feast).At any rate, the celebration of Easter was initially set by the early Church as being near Passover but making a far more complex formula involving the first day of Spring and the first full moon of Spring but as Easter is NOT a "fixed" date, the Crucifixion's date is not mentioned (Easter fell on April 4 in 2010, April 24 in 2011 and will fall on April 8 in 2012 and March 31 in 2013). Additionally, we don't know the exact year of the Crucifixion so we can't know the actual date of the Crucifixion.
Hi Joseph, Why did Jesus say
Hi Joseph, Why did Jesus say at the last supper, "with great desire I have desired to eat this Passover with You"? Since the Jewish reconing of days begin at sunset, the last supper Passover dinner was the same day(Jewish) as the next morning when Christ was crucified. Now You can believe anything/authority figure You want, but I will stick with Christ's own words, as He would be the only authority other than Moses and the prophets in the Bible. If we take Jesus's word for it, He was in the grave 3 days & 3 nights(72 hours) If the unbelievers bringing dead body perfumes, for a dead body, discovered an empty tomb at daybreak Sunday morning, and Jesus gave up the ghost at 3pm(9th hour) then do the math(something frowned upon in the dark ages) Jesus rose on the Sabbath at 3PM! Like I said go ahead and believe YOUR authority figures Pope, Rabbi's, or whatever, I will take Christ's own words as mine.BTW Passover IS the most mentioned date in the Bible Old & New Testaments, If You are not sure of the day God calls His Sabbath, or when is Passover, ask a Jew!
What unbelievably crazy
What unbelievably crazy comment, right from the start, it's crazy. So if one's parents tell you to tell the person calling they are not home, then telling the truth will be a violation of the 5th commandment? Theopile, you're a wing nut. Foxe's Book of Martyrs, among other things, also shows what happens when Christians hold on to their interpretation of the Bible and are willing to do incredibly horrible things to those who hold a diffent view. Not a good book to hold up as a standard. Where is love in what you are saying?
Hi Lisa, Have You read Foxes?
Hi Lisa, Have You read Foxes? It is not a book about Bible believers doing horrible things, It's a book about Pope followers and state religion KILLING Bible believers, and burning them with their Bibles, Bibles were unlawfull to own outside clergy. Fact is in fact far "Crazier" than fiction. Satan has been working to corrupt any worship of God for thousands of years. If a generation learns the truth, Satan corrupts their childrens understanding. Didn't Jesus say, "The servant is not greater than the master, If they persecute me they will persecute You", and in another place," They will thrust You out of the synagogues(churches), persecute you and kill you"....Umm..wheres the love?
Just a quick couple questions. Theophile...
I usually don't reply to these threaded discussions, but I really have a couple questions:So the servant is not greater than the master. But we are called by God to imitate Jesus. So, while we may not be greater than Him, we are supposed to try to be like Him, Right? Also, your second quote at the end of your paragraph... do you mean to say that we need to, as disciples, be the ones cast out of the churches? Your use of this citation is most apt considering the idea that those who are doing the thrusting and the persecuting are the people who are evil and corrupt. It is actually the persecuted who are closer to God. Does this sound right? If that is true, then Churches and people who cast sinners away are actually the corrupt ones. And the people they cast away are the Blessed Poor from Matthew's and Luke's Beatitudes. If this is true, then we had better reconsider our desire to "take a stand" against any group of disadvantaged people.
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